Transcript of Radio Interview with Murray Olds, Radio 2ue, and Federal AMA Vice President, Dr Choong-siew Yong on Wednesday 15 June 2005 - Poor Level of Mental Health Care in Immigration Detention

Dr Choong-Siew Yong is Federal vice-president of the AMA. He's also a child and adolescent psychiatrist based at Blacktown Hospital in Sydney.

Dr Yong, good afternoon to you.

DR YONG: Good afternoon.

OLDS: Thank you very much for joining us. Appreciate very much the chance for you to put your views this afternoon. Because I guess, as I said, first and foremost, you're concerned - the organisation - the AMA's concerned - about the health and welfare of these people. Physical, mental, emotional, the whole lot.

YONG: That's right. We view the issue of the children in indefinite detention being a public health issue, really. And what we're trying to do is remind, I guess, the policy makers, and the Government, about the fact that there are health issues in this debate.

OLDS: As a professional, just take us through some of those issues that confront young children, if they are locked up for a long period of time.

YONG: Well, we're seeing increasing scientific evidence, because of the research that's going on in this area, that children who are in indefinite detention, like we have in the immigration detention centres, are suffering hard every day.

And surveys that we've done - that psychiatrists and psychologists have done - of children in Australian detention centres, have shown that a high percentage - up to 80% - have tried to harm themselves. Most of them have at least some symptoms of anxiety and depression.

Many suffer also physical symptoms. And also then their parents have similar problems.

OLDS: We had that case of a little three year old girl at Villawood only recently who apparently was banging her head against the wall. Three years old, mind you. Never been allowed out to play with other children her own age.

YONG: Well, these are the sort of symptoms that children get when they're - when they're distressed, and depressed.

OLDS: Yeah.

YONG: And you see it every day. They withdraw from their loved ones, they stop eating, they - they look down, but they're quite physically withdrawn and quiet, and sometimes they start hurting themselves such as banging their heads and so on.

OLDS: Wow. Three years old. And I'm wondering - I mean, as the child gets older, you're going into primary school and then into secondary school - are the problems that you may see early on compounding, every day, every month, every year?

YONG: Yes they do. I mean, the longer this goes on for, the more difficulty there is for the child to get out of that situation. And that's why we think that detention centres are not the place to bring up children. That really they need - if we're going to put their health needs first and foremost, we need to find another place for them, such as living in a household in the community.

OLDS: You make a very good point, I think, Dr Yong, and the AMA. You're saying here that the health services, for example in Australian gaols, are run by the Health Department, not by correctional services. Unfortunately in detention centres they're not - the health services, such as they are, are not provided by health professionals, they're provided by DIMIA - the Department of Immigration and Indigenous Affairs.

YONG: Well, with - certainly in most gaol systems around Australia now, it's either run by the Health Department, or by the Health Department in partnership with correctional services in that State. And that allows the doctors and the nurses working for the health of those prisoners, to really be the advocates for their health, and not to have to worry about the gaol issue.

I think when you have an organisation that is gaoler and doctor and nurse, and everything else, then you're running into real problems. And our colleagues who've looked after people and children in detention, have had the most terrible crises of conscience, because they want to advocate certain things on behalf of their patients. But the system doesn't allow it.

OLDS: Tell me this, as a lay person let me ask you this question - it may be very basic to a professional medico, but if there's a problem inside, say, Villawood, because I know you work at Blacktown Hospital, not too far away, I mean, who calls you and says Dr Yong we do have a case here of a - because you specialise in - with children and adolescents - we have a case here - are you then obliged to make a visit to Villawood? Or do they come out and see you? What happens?

YONG: Well, we don't actually get calls from them. What happens is - at the moment, among - in all these detention centres, they're run by a private organisation. A contractor. To the Department of Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs - DIMIA.

So they are private contractors who run the detention centres, and they also contract and employ nurses and doctors to work in there. And so those of us like me who work in the public system - in the public health system - don't get to see these - don't get to see these patients, until they need hospital care outside of what can be provided inside the detention centre.

And when I've - and that's where I've seen some of my colleagues with these sorts of kids. Is when they've had to be admitted to hospital because they've been too sick to be cared for inside. But up til then, we don't get a look in on how these patients are cared for. And I think that's one of the reasons why it's taken so long for some of these more publicised cases of the adults, who've had mental illnesses, coming to light.

Because the public health system hasn't been able to get in there and start treating them properly.

OLDS: I know there've been advocates in South Australia speaking on behalf of Peter Qasim. This man's been seven years in detention. He's now in Glenside Psychiatric Hospital, apparently, in Adelaide, and in some considerable distress.

YONG: Well, we know that the effect on a ongoing detention, where there's no limit - there's no sentence, if you like. It's an ongoing time limit, with no certainty, is in itself a very great stress. For adults and for children. And that's one of the reasons why we see such a high level of physical and psychological distress in detainees.

OLDS: Great to talk to you. Thank you very very much indeed, and I guess we'll see exactly which way the mop flops on Monday - I think it's Monday - when these bills will be presented in the Federal Parliament. I know it's not the politics, it's the health issue that concerns the AMA.

So I'm grateful to you, sir, for your time. Thank you.

YONG: Thank you very much.

OLDS: DR Choong-Siew Yong there, the AMA vice-president - Federal vice-president. And a psychiatrist practising in Sydney, at Blacktown Hospital. Specialising in children and adolescent conditions.

And he's got to say can you not sort it out in a more compassionate way.

Ends