Transcript - Asylum Seeker Health

BRIAN OWLER: Well thank you very much for coming out. The AMA forum today on children in detention and the health care of asylum seekers was an event. We had about 350 doctors, mostly senior doctors, representing their concerns about this current state of children being in detention and the consequence of it. We had a number of speakers who know first-hand the consequence of, particularly, having children in detention, and the harms that have resulted from that. We know from the Human Rights Commission that there is no doubt that having children in detention is harmful. It causes physical, psychological, emotional and developmental harms. And the only way to prevent that is to have children out of detention. We also have concerns about the treatment of asylum seekers in terms of the health care for both adults and children. It's just not possible, at the present time, to say that there is adequate treatment in terms of health care being provided to asylum seekers. Today I gave a number of examples about the health care that’s being provided. About the inadequacies, we know of one death that has occurred. A case before the Queensland Coroner at the moment. But clearly that patient should never have died. The health care wasn't up to scratch. But part of it was because they were on Manus Island as well. So today, the AMA calls for a number of things. First of all, a moratorium on any child being taken back to Nauru or Manus Island. Second, the immediate release of all children from detention. They should be in the community where they can receive care. And thirdly, we want to see a statutory body created that actually is able to report independently on the health care provision to asylum seekers; that has the right to inspect, and report, to Parliament openly; to provide the transparency that this country needs to know what's being done in its name. And finally, we said that if we can't provide the sort of health care that Australian citizens would expect on the mainland, then Government has to revisit its policies on this issue.

            Let me just say, in regards to baby Asha at Lady Cilento Hospital at the moment, and the situation there. We unequivocally support the doctors and nurses working in Lady Cilento. It is an absolute ethical obligation, not to mention moral obligation, of those doctors and nurses, to not release baby Asha into a situation where they believe there's likely to be harm. Now, we know from the reports of the Human Rights Commission, and the first-hand experience of others working in detention facilities, that it is a place where children experience harm. Their obligation is to that patient that is under their care, not to release them back into a situation where they're likely to go to detention, where they're likely to experience harm. Now, I was very concerned last night about reports that security guards were going to come and take baby Asha forcibly, to return the baby to a detention facility. That would be unprecedented. It's a line that cannot be crossed. It's a line, if crossed, there is no return. So I'd say, whatever people's opinions are, having security guards come and forcibly remove patients from a hospital, is something that this country cannot tolerate. The doctors here today all have the same concerns about what's being done to children, and the inadequacies of the health care that's being provided. We have concerns about the transparency, or lack of, the secrecy, the intimidation, not only in terms of asylum seekers, but to our colleagues. These are things that have to end. We want the Border Force Act changed, amended, to make sure that doctors and nurses can speak openly about their concerns for children and adults who are in detention, without fear of being prosecuted, without the fear of a sentence of two years in jail. So, those are the things that the AMA has asked for today. I want to thank the doctors that have turned out here today. I want to encourage my colleagues in Brisbane who are doing absolutely the right thing by following their ethical and moral obligations to baby Asha. But I want to ask all of those people in the Australian community to examine their conscience, about what this country's doing to these children, about what's being done in their name, and call on our politicians to come up with a better way of responding to this problem, because we can't continue to subject children to harm and provide a level of service that's completely inadequate for these people.

QUESTION:   You said this move last night that looked as though it was going to happen was unprecedented. So doctors have never seen that happen before?

BRIAN OWLER:       I'm not aware of any situations that have occurred in the past where security guards, or the police, have come into a hospital and forcibly removed a patient. Now thankfully, that didn't happen. But I say this to our politicians; don't let this sort of thing happen. It is a line that cannot be crossed, and once you've crossed it, you can't go back.

QUESTION:   And what did try to try and intervene? What actually did you do?

QUESTION:   [Talks over] [Indistinct] what can you actually say to the doctors? What can you urge them to do, short of having a wrestle over a child, or they lock the door? What do they do? Do they stand their ground?

BRIAN OWLER:       Well, I think for the doctors involved, they need to contact their legal representatives and see what their position is. This is unprecedented. I don't want any harm to come to the medical staff. If they can resist they should, but clearly they're in a very difficult situation. They're in a dilemma. Look, I support them and the actions that they've taken. We don't want to see anyone locked up in jail. We don't want to see people harmed. And, as I said, this is unprecedented. In terms of the actions that I took last night when I learnt of this situation, I called a number of people, I sent a text…

QUESTION:   [Interrupts] Including Bill Shorten?

BRIAN OWLER:       [Talks over] I sent a text message to Bill Shorten, who called Prime Minister Turnbull, expressed his concerns. They understand the seriousness of the situation.

QUESTION:   Do you know what Mr Turnbull said?

BRIAN OWLER:       I don't know what- our undertakings were given. I know that they had a conversation, but I would hope that the Prime Minister of this country would realise the importance and the significance if a situation would develop where they would allow Department of Immigration and Border Security to have private security guards come into a hospital, against the advice of doctors and nurses, and actually forcibly remove a patient. Now, obviously that didn't happen. I'm glad it didn't. But I want to make sure that it doesn't happen in the future as well.

QUESTION:   What's the status now? What's the status today?

QUESTION:   [Talks over] You've said one of the worst meetings you've ever had was with the head of the Immigration Department. Can you describe why that was such a bad meeting?

BRIAN OWLER:       Look, there is no doubt that there is a- almost a zealot-like behaviour to the Department of Immigration and Border Security when it comes to asylum seekers. I mean I've been yelled at at meetings and people have taken offence at what I have said, that's fine, but I've never…

QUESTION:   [Interrupts] By Mr [indistinct]

BRIAN OWLER:       No. But I've never encountered the sort of attitude that, actually, just not even seem to understand an alternative point of view, that is so determined to keep a level of secrecy and lack of transparency, that wants to shut people away. That has been intimidating our own doctors. This is a ridiculous situation, where you have the head of Immigration and Border Security going to Senate Estimates and saying ‘no, the doctors don't decide who gets transferred if they have a medical condition, we decide’. That's not a situation that's akin to any situation here in Australia. If a doctor feels that a patient needs to be transferred, even if it requires getting a plane and transferring them large distances, the doctor decides that. We don't have to ring the Health Department. We don't have to go to some bureaucrat. And if that was the case, if we were allowed to decide, if doctors were allowed to decide, that person that died as a result of being on Manus Island would not have died, because they would have been allowed to be transferred out of Manus Island before they deteriorated.

QUESTION:   Why go to Shorten? Why not go directly to Malcolm Turnbull and discuss this with him?

BRIAN OWLER:       I didn't have the Prime Minister's number.

QUESTION:   His office?

BRIAN OWLER:       No. It's seven o'clock on a Saturday night.

QUESTION:   Are you saying the Immigration Department has got blood on its hands?

BRIAN OWLER:       No, I didn't say that. I said the case is before the coroner…

QUESTION:   [Interrupts] It's got a death on its hands. It's got a death on its conscience.

BRIAN OWLER:       Well, I think there are clear consequences on the situation that is here, where we have bureaucrats, administrators, deciding that they can overrule medical advice about the treatment of a patient. And it's very clear from the information that I've been given, that a patient died from not being transferred in a timely manner. Now we need to make sure that we put the autonomy back into clinicians' hands, that we have doctors and nurses deciding what's in the best interests of patients. I mean, these people are- they're people. They're just like me and you. They have all of the same health care needs. More when they're in a detention facility and we should expect they should be able to access the same level of health care services than any other Australian citizen has access to. We have an obligation to these people, to make sure that they do have access to those services.

QUESTION:   The Government has routinely dismissed advocacy from any level regardless of the importance of the organisation. There was a strong sense in the forum today that members were supportive of the idea of a boycott. Are you concerned that your views on the boycott are out of step with your membership.

BRIAN OWLER:       No. And in fact there was quite a diverse range of views. Some people have very strong views about boycotting services. I don't believe that's the major view. As I've said in the past, I think if the AMA decides that there will be a boycott of services to asylum seekers, first of all it withdraws good services away from the asylum seekers, good people that would be trying to do the right thing. But second of all, I believe doctor and nurses would go, because that's what doctors and nurses do. They put their patient first. They try and do the right thing. Even if the system that they're working in is inadequate and fails the requirements of these people.

QUESTION:   Will you now try to speak directly to Malcolm Turnbull?

QUESTION:   [Talks over] [Indistinct] whether he'll push for what you've discussed with him this week?

BRIAN OWLER:       Sorry? I missed- look. I've sought a meeting with the Prime Minister about a range of issues, and if I have the opportunity to have that meeting in the near future I'm sure the issue of asylum seekers will be one of the issues that's raised. Sorry, can you just…

QUESTION:   In terms of Bill Shorten, what was his response to you? Has he actually said he will advocate on behalf of the AMA and what you've called for?

BRIAN OWLER:       No, look, our discussion last night was a brief discussion about the events that were occurring in Lady Cilento. He recognises the need to get children out of detention. I want to make sure that the Government has the same approach. We just can't have this situation continuing, where we are putting children at harm - physical, emotional, psychological, developmental harm - in the name- in our name, the Australian people's name. That is not the Australia that I know. I think that's not the Australia that anyone wants to see and we need this process to stop.

QUESTION:   Professor Owler, you talked about some of your members being intimidated. Could you expand on that please?

BRIAN OWLER:       The Border Force Act was brought in and suggested amendments about excluding doctors from that Act were ignored. That Act is extraordinary. Yeah, sure people have conditions in contracts that suggest they shouldn't speak out publicly, if they do their contract can be terminated. That's one thing. But to have an Act that suggests that you could be prosecuted and jailed for two years is a completely different issue. And I think the Border Force Act is a form of intimidation itself. Now, I've got to say that there are a number of other doctors who have spoken out, that do feel that their current situation, and the calls and the aggressive nature of the Department has been intimidating, and that is a situation that cannot be allowed to continue.

QUESTION:   You mean they have been called and threatened by the Department?

BRIAN OWLER:       They haven't been threatened, but it's the nature of the calls, and they certainly feel intimidating.

QUESTION:   What are the nature of the calls?

QUESTION:   [Talks over] They're heavy handed are they? Is that what you're saying?

BRIAN OWLER:       They're heavy handed yeah. I don't know the exact contents of the calls, but I do know that those people do feel intimidated, and that's enough for me.

QUESTION:   Can you give us- do you have any updates today on baby Asha? Have you been in contact directly with the doctors who are treating her?

BRIAN OWLER:       No, look, I have heard that there are perhaps some negotiations in process to maybe get baby Asha into a community situation. I don't know any more than that. We're trying to find out what the current situation is, and I think- again, I support my colleagues and all of those who are standing by at Lady Cilento to support our colleagues and stop this process from occurring.

Great, thanks very much.

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22 February 2016

CONTACT: John Flannery                            02 6270 5477 / 0419 494 761
                  Kirsty Waterford             02 6270 5464 / 0427 209 753