Interview - Dr Bill Glasson, AMA President with Jason Cameron, Radio 3AK 'Drive' - AMA call for Government to release children from detention centres

CAMERON: On International Refugee Day the Australian Medical Association is calling for the Government once again to release children from detention centres.

It's quite a controversial issue today because Immigration Minister, Philip Ruddock, says he's willing to fight a Family Court ruling on the indefinite detention of children as far as the High Court.

We had the Family Court yesterday ruling that it had the power to order the release of children in detention declaring indefinite detention illegal.

Now, Mr Ruddock is still seeking legal advice on whether to appeal but he says there's an arguable case because one Judge dissented and he's also refused calls for children to be released if and when an appeal takes place.

So what a fascinating situation. You have two Government departments virtually conflicting with each other. You have the Family Court taking on the Immigration Department here on the status of child refugees and now the AMA has stepped back into the ring again calling for the Government to release the children from detention centres.

AMA President, Dr Bill Glasson, is on the line now. Dr Glasson, welcome.

GLASSON: A very good afternoon to you.

CAMERON: Now, the AMA, of course, have been lobbying for, well, over two years on this subject. Do you feel a little closer to success this time?

GLASSON: Well I don't really think so. I think we've got to clearly signal to the Government that in relation to children in refugee camps it's not the way forward. I mean, when you think about it it's fairly common sense that if you want these kids to grow up in a fairly normal environment later in life you need to actually have them in that environment from the start, and we're really advocating that these kids should be out there going to traditional schools, attending normal sort of medical centres, receiving the appropriate care that they require because it's been very clearly shown by keeping them in these detention centres it does have serious physical and psychological effects in the long-term.

CAMERON: Now, you're speaking entirely from a medical point of view here, and those are very, very important points that you raise. What are we creating for the future? What sort of a time bomb are we creating leaving children exposed to these horrors?

GLASSON: That's exactly right. I mean, at the end of the day these kids - how do you expect them to come out of a detention centre environment and expect them to function in a normal society? It's really not - they're unable to do that and essentially what we're saying is, for goodness sake put them in an environment where they're with other kids, where they can actually play and interact socially where really the, I suppose, the environment which you find at a detention centre can be very stressful for not only kids but the adults as well, but particularly for kids and if we expect them to, as I said, function normally in the long-term, the ideal thing would be obviously to have them out of that environment from the outset.

CAMERON: Yes, stressful is such an understatement isn't it, in the circumstances given what we've seen. Some of the pictures that have come out of the detention centres lately, particularly those taken by the correctional facilities staff, the acts of self mutilation, the desperation of people trying to crawl across razor wire, people being cut down from the wires, people in abject depression week in, week out, month in, month out, year in, year out, and children are meant to be free and open and happy and playing and yet they seem so sad and depressed?

GLASSON: Exactly. It builds tremendous anger and that's what happens. Ultimately, if children can't be children and play with normal children and grow up as normal children, then they'll never be normal adults, and if you grow up as a child with tremendous anger and probably hatred it's very hard for you then to actually go out and function normally in society, afterwards.

So it really is in the long-term interests of the Australian public to ensure that these kids grow up in as normal an environment as possible so that when they are finally released or whatever, that the family can move into the normal, you know, niche of Australian life without any sort of social or physical implications.

CAMERON: Well, here we had the Family Court, yesterday, indicating that detaining children is probably unlawful and detention breaches our obligations under the UN conventions. Can you take us through the convention on the rights of the child?

GLASSON: Well, essentially, the United Nations convention states that one must recognise the right of the child to the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of health, and the facilities for the treatment of illness and rehabilitation, so they must have actual appropriate facilities whereby they actually can receive the highest medical standards possible, and Australia, luckily, has those standards.

We must strive to ensure that no child is deprived of his or her right to access such health care and obviously again we must ensure that those kids get access to the care as well as the facilities, and we must ensure that the right of every child to a standard of living is adequate for its normal physical, mental, spiritual and social development, and obviously to ensure that no child is deprived of his or her liberty either unlawfully or arbitrarily.

So there are clearly outlined issues here that we are a signatory to and so we have an obligation to make sure that these kids grow up in a very normal environment so ultimately they can become normal adults.

CAMERON: There was a time when Australia could speak up on the world stage and criticise other countries for those sort of abuses, not we're being accused of them ourselves.

GLASSON: Yes, unfortunately that's the case and I think it is an unfortunate one because if we move forward in the right direction here then we probably can set an example for the rest of the world and, as I said, the cost savings to society in the sense if these kids can grow up to be normal adults and function normally in society, contribute back to society, is a huge saving, but if you produce kids that are angry, that are bitter, that have all sorts of social and physical consequences of having grown up in a detention centre that cost to the community in the long-term can be huge.

CAMERON: What sort of process would you follow to get the kids out. I mean, for a start you've got to separate them from their parents and that in itself is a difficult thing to do?

GLASSON: I mean, that's a good question, but I think at the end of the day, if there are no parents then there's no argument for them to be out of there. If they have got parents then I think one parent at least needs to be out with them, or if there are relatives, and a lot of them do have relatives out here, they need to be sort of housed and cared by that relative, but I don't think there's anything wrong in making sure that one of the parents actually can go out with the children and grow up with the children and support the children in that normal environment, but it really is not right to have them continue being detained in what, you know, can only be described as an unacceptable environment from the point of view of normal development.

CAMERON: Well 108 children in that very state of detention in Australia at the moment and we have Immigration Minister, Philip Ruddock, willing to fight this Family Court ruling all the way to the High Court. It doesn't look too good.

GLASSON: No it doesn't. I mean, I think that's unfortunate because I think by allowing the children out and allowing the children into the normal sort of society domains I don't think that's a threat to anybody and certainly not a threat to society, and I don't think it necessary sends a signal and I presume he's going to argue that if you send a signal that those, you know, overseas, it might encourage more people to come. I don't think that's the case at all.

I think at the end of the day we've got a social responsibility to make sure these kids are looked after and make sure they have as a normal development as possible, and, as I said in the long-term this will be a cost saving to our society both socially and in monetary terms.

CAMERON: Well it's hard to keep the politics out of it, but the arguments you make on a medical basis are very compelling.

GLASSON: Yeah, well I think at the end of the day that's what it's all about. I mean at the end of the day what we're trying to do is establish as normal an environment as possible for kids to grow up. The kids are our future of this nation and we can't have an environment where they grow up, as I said, with all sorts of, you know, social or mental or physical ailments as a consequence of this rather anomalous upbringing and what they witness in those centres is something they never forget and I think we need to remove them out of it so they actually can function normally in society as they grow up, as I say.

CAMERON: Well, Dr Glasson, thanks for joining us.

GLASSON: My pleasure. Any time.

CAMERON: President of the AMA, the Australian Medical Association representing Australia's doctors. Bill Glasson and the AMA of course calling again for the Government to release children from detention centres, a call they've been making now with very little effect sadly over the past two years repeating it again on International Refugee Day.

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