Dr Kerryn Phelps, AMA President, with Howard Sattler, Radio 2SM

PHELPS: Good morning.

SATTLER: Okay, well Mr Hodges, who's the chairman of an Independent Detention Advisory Committee, I think he's a former MP as well, Member of Parliament, has described conditions at Woomera as pretty good where the people are pretty well looked after in air conditioned premises, well fed, well clothed and have good medical facilities. So why does your group want to someone in there to assess that?

PHELPS: That all sounds like very non specific terminology to me. The medical profession generally, and that includes not just the AMA, but also all of the learned medical colleges and now the Australian Nursing Federation have formed an alliance some time ago requesting that we are able to, as the medical profession, have an independent assessment of the Woomera Detention Centre and other detention centres to satisfy ourselves that the living conditions and the health services available to the people who are asylum seekers in these detention centres are of a standard that is what we consider to be appropriate.

SATTLER: Why don't you just ask the doctors and the other medical professionals who have been in there?

PHELPS: We have and they've expressed concerns which is why we've been alerted to the problem.

SATTLER: Well, if they've expressed concerns why don't they do something about it?

PHELPS: The problem is that these doctors and other healthcare workers who are working in the detention centres are working there out of social conscience. They are trying to provide the best type of care that they are able to under the circumstances to the people in those centres. They've expressed concerns, we just want to see what the real story is. As you said on the one hand you're getting a government advisory group saying everything's hunky dory, on the other side you're getting people expressing extreme concern. There's no question that we're particularly concerned about the issue of children and adolescents being detained and the effect on their development and their well being.

SATTLER: Well, some of them have been removed now and one of the reasons is that's through parental abuse or adult abuse.

PHELPS: I think you're talking about a pressure cooker emotionally.

SATTLER: I am, the whole issue is a pressure cooker now.

PHELPS: It is indeed and I think that there's no question that Australia has every right to have a policy on illegal immigration. However the concern of the medical profession, and that's really what I should be and will be confining myself to, the concerns of the medical profession are related to the wellbeing and the health conditions, the medical conditions of the people in those detention centres and the ability of the healthcare workers who are working in those areas to do the work that they're there to do.

SATTLER: Are you concerned too about the amount of self harm going on which becomes a medical problem and the fact that adults inside and outside are actually encouraging this to go on?

PHELPS: I think it's very tempting in these situations to blame the victim and in these sorts of circumstances you have people locked up in the desert without being able to enjoy freedoms, without community support in a foreign land where they don't speak the country's language, not knowing their future, not necessarily being able to understand what's going on around them and not knowing how long they're going to be there. And I think that we are seeing an expression of frustration and what I would ask other Australians to do is to think about they would feel if it was their family who had escaped from horrific circumstances in their country of origin and had landed in a foreign land looking for refugee status, for asylum and to be facing these uncertain circumstances and an uncertain future. And I think the very least that we can do is to have some compassion for that and at least to process their claims quickly.

SATTLER: Yes, but if it was my family coming to a foreign land if I knew what the situation was going to be when they got there I would tell them. I wouldn't pull the wool over their eyes, which has happened for a lot of these people.

PHELPS: Well, I think there's a lot of anecdotal evidence around that as well and some of it's reliable and some of it isn't and I think it's very tempting for us to as a community where we are comfortable and well off to not perhaps be as compassionate as we might be for people in this circumstance. They're people that we're talking about here, they're not some nebulas group of refugees - asylum seekers. These are real people. After the Second World War we had an enormous influx of refugees coming from Europe and many of those have become extremely valuable members of the Australian community.

SATTLER: But Kerryn, they also went through the system.

PHELPS: Well, I think that, as I said, I want to stay away from the issue of….

SATTLER: And actually applied before they arrived here, which these people haven't done.

PHELPS: The rights and wrongs of how they got here is for another conversation. What we're concerned about…

SATTLER: I just want to get back to the medical side of things here. We've got people sewing up their lips or someone doing it for them, we've got people who are apparently attempting suicide, yet it seems to me that the advocate groups aren't discouraging this sort of thing. In fact, particularly with children, they should be prevented from doing this sort of thing which becomes a medical problem and a psychological problem.

PHELPS: I think we need to look at the root cause of what's actually going on here and if the frustration at the process is causing this level of frustration, if lack of appropriate psychological services and debriefing and trauma counselling is the root cause of the problem then that's the issue that we need at address.

SATTLER: You wouldn't sit back and watch a 10-year-old child sew up its lips, would you?

PHELPS: Of course not. Of course not. That's clearly a rhetorical question.

SATTLER: It is to, but I'm just making that point, there are adults in there that are sitting back and either watching that happen or helping them do it.

PHELPS: You're not talking about people who are in a calm and reasonable state of mind and that really is part of the issue. This is also a mental health issue. What the actual situation is, once again is very difficult to ascertain unless we really go into the detention centres, talk to the people, talk to the health professionals and have a look at the situation and that's clearly, I was talking to the president of the College of Psychiatry last night and that was one of his concerns.

SATTLER: If you're allowed to go in there and everything's okay, what do you do then?

PHELPS: Then we say everything's okay. But clearly there are indicators here that everything is not okay and there would be and must be ways of preventing this kind of behaviour.

SATTLER: So do you think the Minister's hiding something here?

PHELPS: Well, I sent a letter yesterday to the Minister's office. We've had that letter acknowledged which is requesting a group of doctors from the AMA and the medical colleges go to Woomera. We've also said we would welcome the Minister accompanying us on that visit. We have yet to receive a response to that. We've received an acknowledgement of the letter, but I'm waiting to see if the Minister allows that visit to go ahead. We'd very much like to do that because I think it would settle some of these questionable reporting of what's actually happening and what isn't happening.

SATTLER: Will you do it with a media contingent?

PHELPS: Well, I think the Australian public has a right to know what is going on and the reason the Australian public has a right to know is because our international reputation is being affected by these reports.

SATTLER: Do you reckon it is? Do you really think it is?

PHELPS: Absolutely, there's no question. I have friends in other countries, I'm getting emails from them asking what on earth is going on over here.

SATTLER: Are they countries with refugee policies? Do they take refugees in those countries?

PHELPS: Some yes.

SATTLER: Because not many do.

PHELPS: Well I think it's wonderful that Australia does have a refugee policy and indeed we should.

SATTLER: We're one of only 10 that does.

PHELPS: Yes and Australia, I think, has been enhanced by the fact that we have an immigration policy and a multicultural community.

SATTLER: Okay, well Kerryn, thanks for your time again today. Let us know if you get a breakthrough.

PHELPS: We will do. Thank you Howard.

SATTLER: Thanks for joining us, Australian Medical Association President Doctor Kerryn Phelps.

Ends