Dr Gerald Segal, AMA Spokesperson on Aged care, with Nick Papas, Radio 3AK 'Drive'

SEGAL: Pleasure. Thank you, Nick.

PAPAS: Former Victorian President of the AMA, as I understand it, and long time spokesperson and agitator and concerned about public health issues. You're focussing on aged care and it's in a real mess at the moment, as far as I can see.

SEGAL: Look, Nick, thanks for speaking to us about this. I guess I'm one of the most committed doctors in aged care, I'd have to say that. But I'm almost at the point that I feel like quitting from doing it. It's just pretty awful out there. Most of us, doctors, nurses, we feel really despondent about aged care. And we almost can't see any way out of the mire. Here we are, we've got an election, and I think that we're missing a big opportunity and I think the parties are missing the point. What they're doing, they're in this big bidding war for beds. They're saying that we're going to build lots and lots of new beds. Well, yes, we do need the new beds but the real problem is that we want to be able to utilise them. We--

PAPAS: No, because nurses aren't being paid enough. The doctors are finding it impossible to have proper supervision over their patients. And the system isn't properly funded once the beds are actually built, as I follow it.

SEGAL: That's exactly … I mean, there's no … we want the beds. We need the beds. But without the proper staff we can't look after the patients. I mean, our nurses are magnificent. They really are. But they're exhausted. They're demoralised. The amount of things they're being asked to do is just huge. The red tape is just killing them. Trying to do drug rounds that go on and on forever. They've got no time to actually treat the patients. And, as for GPs, we've got similar problems. You know, I don't know if you know, but only 20 percent of GPs are now doing aged care. The rest have just given up because they just see it as so difficult. You can't treat your patients like you normally would in your rooms. It's a terrible feeling to feel that you're really not doing what you know is the absolute best thing. It's something that really gets to us all.

PAPAS: There's a quote in today's paper, it's the Herald Sun, and the Victorian branch acting assistant secretary of the Nurses Federation, Jan Brownrig, is quoted as saying that because of the crisis in aged care, there might well be a risk, quote: It means your mother who has cancer may receive a life-threatening dose of morphine from an untrained worker or she may not get it at all. I mean, that sounds like you agree. That's not scare mongering, that's a real problem in the system at the moment?

SEGAL: Look, it's real. I have nurses ringing me up because someone's been given the wrong dose or the wrong medication and it's purely because they're so tired, just trying to do the impossible that these sort of things happen. If that wasn't happening, if there were more nurses there, if there was more supervision, these sort of things wouldn't happen. We've got to do something, however, and I really would like the parties to stop this bidding on who can put out the most beds. You know, oh, I'm fantastic says the Labor Party, I'll build 5,000 beds or the Libs will build, you know, a thousand more beds. It's not … that's not the point. They've really got to get the point that build the beds but fund them so that people can work in them and can look after patients properly.

PAPAS: I, some months ago now, interviewed one of the representatives of the home operators, the nursing home operators.

SEGAL: Yes.

PAPAS: And their view was that there are sufficient beds or approved beds. In other words, ones that haven't been built yet.

SEGAL: Yes, that--

PAPAS: The issue is that you cannot get the staff or the sufficient funds into each of the nursing homes to give the patients proper care.

SEGAL: Yes. Look, I couldn't agree more. The AMA would like ... what we'd like to see the parties do is to stop name-calling, to form a bipartisan committee. Let's have industry experts, let's get everyone who's in the industry there and look at some short term solutions. Let's reallocate, let's prioritise. Let's get things right for the short term. Now, it might be impossible to completely do the job. And we really do need a longer term look - in fact the AMA's going to have a summit next week to look at aged care 2008 and beyond. And that's a longer look - but I think we need a committee right now that starts to prioritise and actually do something right now.

PAPAS: Well that's a sensible call. Now's the time to be making that call in the sense of getting attention placed on it. Jenny Macklin was on the other day. She was only on for a short time. I've also spoken to Bronwyn Bishop in recent times. They've been debating each other on television. Your concern is that they're just going to head to head in election mode and, what, losing sight of the ball, is that the issue?

SEGAL: Yes. Look, it's all about who can promise the most money for the most beds but ignoring the basic issue of, let's make what we've got work properly. And if we're going to build something, let it be … at least be able to be used properly. That's what they're ignoring.

PAPAS: All right. Well, we'll get those comments directed to Bronwyn Bishop. We'll also get them directed to Jenny Macklin and we'll try and get them up on the line, if not today, certainly tomorrow, to get some sensible response. And, can I say that, coming from a doctor who's obviously been in the area a long time, it sound like you're pretty fed up. I mean, it's really getting to the stage where if you're contemplating not doing that sort of work at all, you must be, you know, got to the stage where you're almost sort of angry and showing emotions that you shouldn't be showing.

SEGAL: Look, you get to the point where you feel like crying about it because it just breaks your heart. You got to places and you see things and you think, oh my god, that's not good enough. But you know that everyone there is absolutely doing their best. It's terrible. And I sometimes think to myself, jeez, why have I done this round? Why have I gone round? I know that things aren't going to really happen as I'd like it. And that just gets to me and it gets to most doctors. That's why, as I said, it's now got to the point where 80 percent of GPs have actually quit from doing it. They just can't take it any more.

PAPAS: We're not just talking about peeling paint. I presume we're talking about things like people with bed sores who can't be moved, inadequate sort of heating, a range of other sort of issues that go to the very health and comfort of the people who are our mums and dads.

SEGAL: Well, you know, I'd like the nurses to be able to get round and actually look at the people and say, hey, look, this person looks as if they're in distress. We better be able to do something about it. They're just so bound up in just doing the mundane that they actually have no time to look at, talk to or actually see people.

PAPAS: Mm.

SEGAL: Pretty sad.

PAPAS: It is indeed. Dr Gerald Segal, federal AMA spokesman on aged care, raising what I consider to be a crisis question in aged care. Not about beds, it's about making sure that the beds are properly funded, properly serviced. The nurses are properly paid and the doctors can be confident that their patients will be looked after in a proper environment. Gerald Segal, thanks for talking to us.

SEGAL: Thank you, Nick.

Ends