Speeches and Transcripts

AMA Transcript - Response to claims of harassment in the medical profession

Transcript: AMA President, A/Prof Brian Owler, ABC Weekend Breakfast, 14 March 2015

Subject: Response to claims of harassment in the medical profession


MIRIAM COROWA: After accusations of sexism, bullying, and harassment within hospitals, the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons has appointed a high profile panel to investigate the claims.

ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: The panel will examine gender imbalances within the profession as well as the college's culture, which has been described as an Anglo-Saxon old boys' club. For more, we're joined by the President of the Australian Medical Association, Associate Professor Brian Owler in Canberra. Brian Owler, a very good morning to you.

BRIAN OWLER: Good morning.

ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: Were you aware of sexual harassment claims before these allegations surfaced this week?

BRIAN OWLER:Look I think it's fair to say that we have all been aware that there have been instances, but I've not really been aware of the extent, I think one of the things that's been interesting this week is that when I sent out an email on Monday morning to all of the members of the AMA, we've had feedback from right across the profession; not just surgeons, but other areas of the profession as well, and it includes trainees, but also established consultants and physicians that there is an issue. Perhaps not with the sort of harassment or assault cases but I think in terms of the culture and the way that we deal with each other on a personal level, and I think that's something that the AMA and I think the whole profession needs to address.

ANDREW GEOGHEGAN:Why's it taken so long?

BRIAN OWLER:Well I think this - the problem here is that people have not been speaking about it enough and I think that is one of the core issues - I think there are a number of problems here. The AMA, first of all, absolutely rejects bullying, harassment, or intimidation, whether it's on the basis of gender, or any other personal attribute, but I think we have a number of issues to address. One is the process, and I'm glad that the College of Surgeons has appointed that panel to look at that, but I think we also have to look at how we actually make it safe and people feel protected in actually speaking out. The AMA certainly has a role to play there, as do the Colleges and other employers. But then I think the third is that we have to look at the profession-wide culture and how we deal with each other as colleagues, and how we make sure that we don't tolerate these sorts of behaviours in any workplace whether it be a hospital, whether it be a practice, or in the community.

MIRIAM COROWA: Brian Owler, there has also been criticism from Dr Gabrielle McMullan who first raised these allegations a week ago that the independent panel that has been put together by the Australasian College of Surgeons to investigate these issues isn't going to be independent enough, won't address the issues correctly and should there be a broader inquiry across the medical profession, not just looking at surgeons?

BRIAN OWLER:Look, I think it's fair to say that it shouldn't look across just surgeons, I think we've got to make sure that we look right across the profession. I think it's a little bit unfair to criticise the appointment of that expert panel, it has a number of very senior and independent people and I'm sure that that panel needs to be given the opportunity to do its work and report back in the next three months. This week I've spoken to the President of the College of Surgeons, but also the Presidents of Physicians, Radiologists, anaesthetists, both GP colleges, and others and the AMA plans to bring that group together as well as trainee groups, medical students, and a number of other important groups as well to discuss this issue at some stage in the next few weeks and to actually address how we tackle this problem as a whole profession. Not just leaving it to the College of Surgeons but making sure that we as a whole profession attack the problem of not just sexual harassment, but I think in the longer term the other issues of bullying and intimidation, which can also be factors in the professional workplace.

ANDREW GEOGHEGAN:You've spent many hours in surgery, you're a neurosurgeon. Had you ever witnessed sexism in surgery and have you also - perhaps can you address the gender imbalance among surgeons there? Clearly many more men than women.

BRIAN OWLER:Well certainly it's fair to say at the moment there are many more men than women. There's been a lot of effort I think put in by male mentors trying to bring many women, more women, into the profession. Not just in terms of surgery but other areas of the profession as well. Look I think it's fair to say that sometimes people are not aware of the behaviours that are actually causing offence and I think that's something that we need to change. We need to be more aware of some of these behaviours and how they're actually interpreted by women in the workplace and I think that's part of the conversation I've been having this week with many of the female members of the medical profession about what their experience has been, and I think the experience there is from ‘it's not been an issue for them at all’ right across the board to ‘yes, it has it been an issue’ and ‘there's been very significant issues that have happened to them in the past.’ Now this can stretch back over a long period of time but I think it is more of an issue and we need to start that conversation and ask people to come forward and make sure that we have an open conversation about it.

ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: So you haven't witnessed any of that behaviour in surgery while you've been there?

BRIAN OWLER: Look I've certainly seen I think on the odd occasion remarks that were certainly inappropriate and not made in the - I think - in an appropriate way...

ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: Does that lend to a sort of blokey culture in surgery does it?

BRIAN OWLER: No I don't - look I think it's unfair to say that it's just a blokey culture in surgery but I think that people sometimes do say the wrong thing and I think we need to be a lot more conscious of what we say, how we behave to other members of the profession, and whether it's on the basis of gender or on the basis of bullying, making sure that we do actually have that respect. One of the pearls that I was told when I was training was that we are all colleagues whether you're a senior consultant, a medical student or trainee, we're all colleagues, and I think we need to get back to that essence of collegiality which actually underlines our professionalism as well.

MIRIAM COROWA: Associate Professor Brian Owler, thank you very much for joining us this morning.

BRIAN OWLER:It's a pleasure.


17 March 2015

CONTACT:    John Flannery              02 6270 5477 / 0419 494 761

                   Odette Visser              02 6270 5412 / 0427 209 753

 

 

Media Contacts

Federal 

 02 6270 5478
 0427 209 753
 media@ama.com.au

Follow the AMA

 @ama_media
 @amapresident
‌ @AustralianMedicalAssociation

Related topics